ATLANTA— I am way behind on this one, but finally had a chance to watch it. Joe Wilson calls Barack Obama a liar during the middle of his address to Congress. Wow! Wanted to post my thoughts.
I have also posted above a clip of Democrats booing George W. Bush during the 2005 State of the Union address, because a lot of folks have been comparing the two.
My initial reactions to both videos are that it is difficult to understand what is happening in each, and likely the public hype from each is more from the telling of the event afterward than from the way it came across on T.V.
Here are my thoughts on Joe Wilson’s reaction:
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It was foolish and unhelpful to the conservative cause. I am glad he apologized.
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It is certainly not any worse than Harry Reid calling George W. Bush a loser in front of high school students in 2005, something for which he never apologized.
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It may be slightly worse than Democrats booing George W. Bush on national television, only because their boos were “non-specific.” Mr. Wilson called Barack Obama a liar to his face. But in my view Mr. Wilson’s actions were not substantially worse. Haven’t most of us now wanted to scream “liar!” at one president or another over the last 9 years?
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It is certainly not racially motivated, as I’m sure progressives would love to have us all believe. Mr. Wilson comes from a state that is almost 30 percent African-American, something which not many progressives can claim. The state has a troubled history, but has actually come an extremely long way. Name the last major racially-motivated incident that you can recall from South Carolina? You can’t? Neither can I. So if you think South Carolina is a bunch of biggoted racists, you need to get off your university campus and out of your elite circles and get into the middle America you purport to want to help.
I hope Mr. Wilson keeps his seat. He actually sounds like a decent man. Never had heard of him before this.
While I would not have yelled at the president in the way he did, I definitely agree with his overarching opposition to this awful health care bill in front of us.
TennesseePaul
Stephen VanNuys
Brooklyn Daniel
The Freedom Thinker
[...] (3) “YOU LIE!” Videos of Joe Wilson Shouting at Barack Obama and Democrats Booing Bush in 2005 State… [...]
You are correct in that Rep. Wilson’s actions were not helpful to the conservative cause – we should never knowingly or unknowingly provide ammunition to the Left.
The media, of course, will eagerly fashion on any reason to pillory any segment of the right while ignoring the hypocrisy exhibited by the Left. Then again, I think that the public expects such behavior from the progressives, but holds conservatives to a higher standard because they do have standards that they try to live up to. “No good deed goes unpunished”.
I guess that could be construed as a left-handed compliment (a pun, if you wish).
Mr. Obama is becoming a joke up there. In his attempt to be post partisan, end the bickering, he belittled the nation, the opposition and all those with serious concerns. His “post-partisan” speech to unite the parties to work was quickly twisted into a partisan show case. Yes, Mr. Wilson behaved poorly. What is even more destructive is the pouncing on that Democrats proceeded to do afterwards. If they truly wanted to “rise above” and present a legit debate, they wouldn’t have spent the next week discussing Mr. Wilson and suggesting his actions are worse than these:
Wow – that was the video I was looking for…
“Yet the rising cost of entitlements is not going away…!” and the Dems cheer and cheer and cheer.
Sad.
And they want to add more entitlements and more subsidies and more unfunded obligations. Woo hoo!
The unfortunate fact about the booing in 2005, the cheering in 2006, and the outburst in 2009 is that they represent, in the aggregate, a race to the bottom in the way our politicians treat each other (and our system of government).
I am willing to give Wilson the benefit of the doubt that this was an unplanned outburst, but the fact is that he is making incredible personal hay out of it. What does that signify? That the public, as much as it gives lip service to a desire for bipartisanship and civility, has bought into the food fight as much as their elected leaders. Rather than reject figures who break the rules and make the news, they reward them and rationalize on their behalf. In that, the nation is incredibly bipartisan.
In one way I can see your points, Marque.
But then in another I think maybe this is democracy in action. There is sort of a parliamentarian showmanship in all of this. Watching British parliament, all of the above is tame by comparison. Of course, our president is constitutionally intended to be something more close to a king then a prime minister. But still.
I think Wilson was misguided and his outburst provided unneeded fuel to the fire for progressives (this era’s “neo-cons”).
But I don’t know that I am totally against the murmuring and occasional boos, from right or from left, in the above videos. I think the Dems booing Bush was foolish, in light of the tragedy that is our fiscal imbalances. But they have a right to make their voices heard- however foolish.
Stephen, I agree that there’s a necessary tension between civility and public discourse — every time your manners keep you from speaking out, you may be missing an incredibly opportunity to make your point.
But that’s what manners are — a collective decision to forego scoring the point in the interest of keeping the relationship. That’s also what rules of parliamentary procedure are. When Charles Rangel steps to the podium and starts talking about the need to raise taxes on the rich, it would make great television for Republicans to shout back, “How ’bout if you pay yours first, Charlie?” But they don’t – and thank God they don’t. They might ask Rangel to yield for a question, but most times they have to sit and fume and wait their turn.
Does that mean a “teachable moment” has passed? Sure. But it also means that the next time a Republican is standing in the well and makes a GREAT point, he’s far less likely to get shouted down. So long as the truce is mutual, it remains. But it’s incredibly hard, once the truce is broken, to rebuild the trust that keeps it alive.
THAT’S why these moments matter. I am actually OK with Pelosi taking down Wilson’s words next week (although it’s completely political), if only because it enforces the rules in a way that gives Republicans a chance to enforce them right back, when the inevitable breach occurs across the aisle. I’d far rather have that than the scene each Prime Minister’s Questions — as entertaining as they are — when a witty repartee passes for debate.
Boos, shouts, and cheers make points. No question. I’m just one who believes that a mature democracy should rely on arguments, not primal noisemaking, in its public discourse.
Fair points. I hear you. Your point on elevating discourse above primal noisemaking is certainly well taken.
I think that is true on these blogs, as well as in parliament or the house of representatives. I hate nothing more than to engage in a debate with the left-wingers and have them descend into name calling. It generally happens at the moment you feel like you’ve made your best point. They shut it down with a witty retort or name calling. I’m not saying all left-wingers are this way- we had a great visitor a week or two ago named HippieProf who we had some really good debates with. But the ones who go nuts annoy me. Same for right-wingers- I suppose it’s really just a human trait that knows no ideological bounds.
Anyway – enough rambling. You make a fair point here.
I hear were he is coming from thought. It’s to bad that what Obama said wasn’t “technically” a lie. It’s to bad he didn’t actually catch him on one of his various other actual lies.
Like, the fact that the bill will use government dollars for abortions, the bill will take money from taxpayer dollars, that the insurance market isn’t nearly as monopolized as he painted it, or that most experts agree that while the plan won’t “force” people to switch a lot of employers will be switching.
Jim Geraghty has a nice post on this subject. Of course, he happens to agree with me.
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODI4MzgzMmIzOGYwN2Q3MjYyYmU4NGE2Mzg1YjhjMTM=
Kudos to Joe Wilson, the only man in congress with the balls to stand up to the Socialist Steamroller.
justshowstogoya – thanks for dropping back by!